Episode #1

How StudentBridge came to be

Featuring Jonathan Clues CEO of StudentBridge
How StudentBridge came to be
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In This Episode

You’ll hear from Jonathan Clues who is the CEO and founder of StudentBridge.

We talk about:

  • why Jonathan chose to work in higher education after being a professional racecar driver
  • what he believes the future of higher education and enrollment marketing are
  • his vision for how virtual experiences can complement existing in-person and on-campus tactics
Jonathan Clues

Episode Transcript

[00:01:00] Host: Tell me a little bit about your background. What did you do before founding StudentBridge?

[00:01:06] Jonathan Clues: I had quite unusual background and probably not the most typical one at all. I actually used to be a professional race car driver, and it really is actually a founding part of my whole business story, because what people don't realize when you race cars is you're actually driving the car for 30, 40 days.

[00:01:22] Jonathan Clues: a year And all the rest of the time, you're marketing yourself and talking to sponsors and you're networking. You're communicating. And so my first ever job was being professional. Race car driver. I won two championships, moved to America, race over here. enjoyed it so much.

[00:01:38] Jonathan Clues: It was always a dream to come back and live in America. After my sportsman visa had expired. that was my first kind of career. And that really got me into the internet as well, because one of the things people don't know is, again, going back to the only drive in the car, 30, 40 days a year, a lot of the time you're working with your sponsors.

[00:01:55] Jonathan Clues: And a lot of my sponsors were smaller entrepreneurial startups. So I started working with a lot of entrepreneurs Starting helping them communicate and their branding and the advent of the internet. So I was doing a lot of early internet dial up websites, but making sure they had websites and brands and even put video on the internet in the nineties.

[00:02:13] so really just got involved in how to help people communicate over the internet.

[00:02:25] Host: So how did you make the leap from driving race cars to working in the higher education space? And why did you make that leap?

[00:02:27] There's about two more steps in the leap. Life's about an evolution. I wish you'd would be, I hung my helmet up and got straight into StudentBridge, but StudentBridge is truly, a. result of many wrong turns, right. turns to twists and turns in life, good stuff, bad stuff. and,I found my happy place if you want to call it that.

[00:02:45] Jonathan Clues: But the reality is after racing, I moved fully into At the time, my, my resume probably looked like, well, what have you done the last seven years is racing cars. So it's not the most traditional career if you're going to look for a job. And so I moved into the internet because this is 1999, 2000 when really the internet was having his first crash.

[00:03:06] Jonathan Clues: But what happened there was, it was great for someone like myself to come in and be a disruptor. And really try and understand what was going on. Now, of course, in the nineties and early two thousands, there was a saying the web is dead. and I was like, there's no way the web's dead. And I saw the internet.

[00:03:20] Jonathan Clues: as just this humongous opportunity to share information and help people make informed decisions. And look what the internet is now, we all go to the internet all the time. Before I buy anything, I'll go to the internet research. Whether it's a look at a review site, look at a manufacturer site, watch a video on it.

[00:03:35] Jonathan Clues: We go to the internet to do all this kind of collateral information collecting. And so basically my first company was a company called iMedia 8, which is a web development application agency in London that we founded. And that company is a great agency that works with a lot of the NGOs out in Geneva to help them with their media,

[00:03:53] Jonathan Clues: and we have newsrooms and media costs for them. So a lot of heavy lifting on the internet. Not just doing like brochures slides, but there's a lot of rich media engagement. And then in 2002, we were approached by a company that wanted to market real estate, Now in, in real estate, there's a famous saying location, location, location.

[00:04:11] Jonathan Clues: And so we felt that. static website with just words and pictures. It wouldn't cut it because words and pictures. When you are showed a building, looks like a box it's about the location. How do you explain the location without storytelling? Websites don't do great at storytelling. we go there, we look at some pictures, we try and get some information off it.

[00:04:28] So we looked and we created a company called Real View TV and a bit like the name said, Real View TV. It was all about authenticity because the other thing about the internet even now is even worse. It's not overnight. I can build a website saying that I have a dog boarding kennels or, online travel agency.

[00:04:44] you can fake it on the web within minutes and there's loads of web builders. But the thing about video is you can't fake it. it's much harder to fake, you've got to really put time and effort into showing it. So Real View TV was there and our first mantra was combining the power of broadcast television with the interactivity of the web.

[00:05:00] Jonathan Clues: We really believed in the power of video. So, Real View TV was there to really make authentic video online and show real people doing real things. And it wasn't based on education at all. It was based on any, anyone with a website. And so over the years, we started doing very well across all kinds of industries.

[00:05:15] Jonathan Clues: We had a good footprint in hospitality, a good footprint in education, a good footprint, healthcare automotive. And what was obvious was the companies that were gravitating towards us, the ones that had larger stories to tell. So I call them larger emotional purchases.

[00:05:30] Jonathan Clues: So vacations, healthcare, automotive, houses, and of course education. So anything that required, not just a casual click of a button to buy a $4 pair of socks on Amazon or a $10 album. So basically we started looking and really focusing our business on these larger emotional, and then we moved to another part.

[00:05:49] quite often remote purchase. So what requires a large decision-making before you go, maybe to an auto dealership, you don't normally go on vacation to plan your vacation. You don't have to make that decision remotely. Same with education you don't know till you get there, whether you made the right decision or not, and you've made a huge decision.

[00:06:07] Jonathan Clues: So in 2015, we really started focusing just on education. And, Real View TV, we felt was just the wrong company and brand by then, we had good success in different industries. We even had, movie theaters. we just, we had all kinds of different things and we thought no look education to us seemed like the kind of industry that they want you to show them the love.

[00:06:26] Jonathan Clues: And they really want to show that your subject matter experts and you're doubling down on them and you're not, like kind of Jack of all trades. And that's why we made the decision to, to start StudentBridge. And also with StudentBridge, we really wanted to create more than just a video. We wants to become this totally immersive student engagement platform.

[00:06:45] Jonathan Clues: So in 2015 we founded a StudentBridge and we acquired Real View TV.

[00:06:49] So. Racing cars, lots of wrong turns, ended up creating StudentBridge in the mid 2010's. What was your goal when you originally founded it? So I know you said, immersive student engagement platform. Was that the goal initially? And how has the goal or the vision evolved since then.

[00:07:10] Our goal remains the same and the brand actually says it. I want StudentBridge to be the connector between institutions and students. Just a way that they communicate, whether it's in recruitment or enrollment. Whether it's the student success alumni, or capital campaigns.

[00:07:27] K to grade. So I really want StudentBridge to be that connector. To bridge the gap. And that's where the brand came from. There's a massive void from an institution to a student and also one of the other mantras I really live by is right content right device, right time.

[00:07:41] Jonathan Clues: a student needs different things in the recruitment life cycle different information, different tools. then they're going to need different tools and information when they're matriculated students and they're gonna have different needs when they're an alumni. the goal is for StudentBridge to become that total student life-cycle relationship connector. The engagement platform. We are doing very well at being an niche of a niche We are, we're finding a lot of success in enrollment, which really in any business and universities being a form of business.

[00:08:12] Jonathan Clues: Bringing in new sales, if you want to call it, that is the lifeblood of any business, right? So you've got to bring in the new talent, bring in the new class, and then you obviously want to keep them and retain them through student success. But then also anyone who graduates with you is a prime candidate for years and years, donating the capital campaigns.

[00:08:29] Really We're just scratching the surface of our iceberg here. StudentBridge is doing very well in recruitment. One of the things, again, I really believe in is better retention through better recruitment. If we can recruit students better by default, by being more genuine and transparent and authentic and not false advertising to students, you get a better fit.

[00:08:49] Jonathan Clues: And by having a better fit, we increase the chance of graduation or retention to graduation. And then by default, you increase the opportunity for them to be a donor for life because you gave them a great experience. You advertised and marketed to them correctly in the first place. When they were young and impressionable, and now they are experienced and earning money and a professional and they can still, donate to the cause.

[00:09:10] Jonathan Clues: So the goal is still that to be just the best friend for a university to communicate to a student. We do find ourselves doing very well within the enrollment side and absolutely in years to come look to expanse to total life cycle.

[00:09:25] So what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned or biggest takeaways about higher education?

[00:09:31] Look, I I've made some good friends in education. you're one of them, and what I've learned is at the end of the day, people that work in education are also humans. They have feelings and thoughts and passions and agendas and their humans. There is an overall I've seen it get better. we've been involved in education for over 15 years.

[00:09:47] Jonathan Clues: It used to be highly fragmented. I've been in meetings with. Very high branded schools where I literally thought there's gonna be a fight between departments across the table, where I felt the marketing team was going to launch themselves at the enrollment team. I've been on calls where I've had the Dean of admissions said to me, wait a bit, you've asked me a great question.

[00:10:05] Jonathan Clues: Let me go and shut my door and tell you the truth. We've learned a lot, but at the end of the day, it happens in enterprise. How does a business? And it's just sales and marketing, never used to get along in business. Software and solutions bring people together quite often. And now I see marketing, working much closer with enrollment teams.

[00:10:21] Jonathan Clues: And so it's been an evolution for definite. I think the common thing, I still see that I wish that I could pioneer the change is this march to digital tranformation. You just have to look at any other industry and see how much they've adopted technology, how much they've adopted, digital experiences to assist them in meeting their goals.

[00:10:42] Jonathan Clues: And my fear for education is currently that even with COVID, there was a humongous push in 2020 to adopt almost a knee-jerk reaction to adopt digital. And it was like, well, we can't see these students in person. Let's go digital. And we have to go digital. And in 2021, the pendulum swung pretty hard

[00:11:00] Jonathan Clues: the other way. Look, old habits die hard. And so the industry tends to go back to what it knew worked before. But look, a blockbuster 20 years ago, you never would have thought blockbuster would not be on a single street.

[00:11:13] And Netflix, the DVD through the mail gone. So there's three business there. There was blockbuster. We'd pull into go and pick up your DVD. There was DVD in the mail and that's all streaming. And if you didn't evolve you were gone, JC Penney didn't evolve, gone, come see Sears didn't evolve. Gone. And education is a big cornerstone of any civilization, European American.

[00:11:34] Jonathan Clues: And so I believe that there really needs to be this acceptance of digital as a friend, not as foe. It's not here to affect people negatively. It's here to help people do their job to help people scale. But more than all of that, it's what the market that they're trying to talk to now expects.

[00:11:53] Jonathan Clues: There isn't a 17 or 16 or 18 year old out there for goodness sakes. I've got a six year old. There isn't a six year old out there without a digital device strapped to their hands at all times. And so if universities and colleges and schools in general. Don't learn that that's the way that their audience wants to be spoken to and know how to adopt it.

[00:12:12] Jonathan Clues: And maybe be time to give up some of the old school stuff. They will become old school. They will become the dinosaurs. And I think that it's the schools that will move and meet their students where they want to be met. We'll be the ones that really succeed.

[00:12:25] Host: Do you think that the majority of schools are still in the wishful thinking we're just waiting for it to go back to normal.

[00:12:34] I think that the whole world's doing that. now do I think that, of course, that impacts me most with schools because that's our industry that we have devoted ourselves to.

[00:12:43] Jonathan Clues: Absolutely. If two years ago, I said to schools, I'm going to replace your in-person event, with a digital event they would have thrown me out the office, say that I don't understand the industry at all. Because the golden saying was, if we get them here, we will, close them.

[00:12:56] Jonathan Clues: Now of course the reality is a third because the average American student visits three schools, maybe it's up to four or five. Now it's down again. But You had a 33% chance of closing them if all things being equal. But if you look at the other conversion points in that recruitment funnel, it was great.

[00:13:11] Car dealerships now still want you to go into, get a test drive so they can talk to you. But you'd be foolish not to think Carvana is not going to take over like internet buying when they deliver the car to you, get to drive it free for a week. If you don't like it, send it back.

[00:13:25] Jonathan Clues: Do you really want to go to a car dealership and face the finance manager for two hours? car buying is changing. And education buying will change as well.and look a car dealership, is not trying to sell you the dealership. Let's trying to sell you a car that you're going to take home.

[00:13:39] Jonathan Clues: A lot of the sale of a university is the campus. So I understand why they want to get you there and why they want to show it and show it in it's best. But even then look, how often do you go to a campus? It's not in its best light. Maybe there's some work going on. Maybe an area's closed off. Maybe it's raining. Maybe there's no one around, So digital devices can bring your best sales person, your best marketing presentation, online or digitally available. 24/7 never gets a cold. always available. And so I think it's working how to work that into the existing framework versus replace the existing framework.

[00:14:14] You're making me remember. something that we would deal with a lot was typically you want Prospective students to come when there's a lot going on, on campus because it's buzzing and there's this energy, but then those are also the times when it is most difficult to find parking.

[00:14:31] Then it's oh, let's bring everyone on a Saturday. So it's easier for them to park and all the buildings are open and we can have all of our presentations and different things, but then we would get feedback that, campus seemed really dead. And so you're right. That just bringing them to campus, isn't always the solution because sometimes if the students aren't there, you're missing that energy.

[00:14:51] You may need some kind of digital solution to compliment that experience.

[00:14:56] Life's always a compromise, eat something tasty or lose weight. you can't do both so life's a compromise. And like you say, bring them on a day where they can park

[00:15:03] Jonathan Clues: campus has less life. but also there's , there's a gentleman called Jack Jason Dorsey. He does a lot of research and he's shown that two humans, in today's environment, actually communicate better through a device.

[00:15:16] Jonathan Clues: So let's say I'm on a campus tour and I've got a campus ambassador. You don't know that guy or girls on a good day, bad day. You don't know what's going on, but there's four families with them. Well, he's going around.

[00:15:27] Jonathan Clues: He's not trying to explain that. this is our bell tower, and now, isn't this great. And, but it's not because he's just trying to tell you their story. So how powerful that to pick up a device and go, let me show you how it was built or maybe they got . Bring their own devices. Watch this video about how it was built and where, gosh, it's a quick time lapse of how it was built, Immediately immersed that student and their family in an experience on campus that you don't get from narration alone. Likewise, you go to the laboratory.

[00:15:54] Jonathan Clues: Maybe you can't get in the laboratory. Maybe you go to, fantastic. football stadium. There's no one in there. Now I do think empty stadiums have a called aura, but what have you got a device to go now to click on this and have an VR experience or what it's like on gameday? Wow. 68,000, 75,000 fans screaming.

[00:16:10] There's there's lions running around tigers running around there's Eagles flying in at different places. yeah, you can capture the whole experience with these different universities that only happens on gameday. And so I think it's the marrying of digital online with traditional offline, that will give universities the true confidence to get more and more into digital, but you can't rip the bandaid off and just go all in with digital because it's not going to work.

[00:16:35] Let's look at the other side of the coin. What do you think are some things that enrollment marketers are doing really well?

[00:16:42] I think enrollment marketers have actually done quite well rolling with the punches. So an opportunity to say, Hey, we don't know what to do. Let's put our head in the sand. Look, how many people did go to virtual events. they've never done that before. Yeah.

[00:16:55] And they've seen great success from that. I think that enrollment marketers generally do a good job wishing to talk like a teenager. and I think that we see this in interest in StudentBridge. There's never a time when someone comes and tells us what we're doing is silly and not useful.

[00:17:11] Jonathan Clues: We may not sit far enough up their priority list to get it done now. But I think that there has been over the last couple of years, general acceptance. Well, okay. Take something else. They do very well. And this is a problem with the industry. There are too many small micro solutions that an enrollment manager or marketing manager or director of marketing at a university has to manage to get this job done.

[00:17:35] StudentBridge, we've got 12 technology platforms, maybe 10, right? And we're a good size enterprise, 10 to 12, but you guys, have to manage our 20, 30. There's something for the visit there's. for this, there's something for this.

[00:17:47] for the orientation, there's something and there's all these different things. So no wonder there's a little bit of an allergic reaction when a new digital engagement platform comes up because they're already set again, my goodness, I'm managing 15 different CMS systems and this, that, and the other.

[00:18:02] Jonathan Clues: Now of course, that means the industry needs to change from the vendor side as well. But I think they've done very well at trying to spin many plates. I just don't think they should have been in the position to do it.

[00:18:12] Also, we talk about vision. Can we talk about business that have the blockbusters of the world and the other companies that have gone just going under? Because look, 10 years time, would they be gasoline vehicles or in with driving Teslas and all sorts. You've got to think about where the world's going.

[00:18:24] And I think it'd be a very brave person and education, in any office of enrollment that doesn't think in a period of time, I'm not saying it's next year, or five, or 10 years time. That we're not all going to sit with VR headsets on and have a really brilliant virtual experience of what a true in-person.

[00:18:41] Jonathan Clues: And it will become the precursor to going in person. It's almost like we haven't had a good virtual experience you're just not going to go for the physical experience. And if you're in a virtual world where look these headsets are bulky and not very good right now, I don't want tocall them gimmicky

[00:18:54] Jonathan Clues: they're getting better all the time. But what in 10 years, time was really good and you and I are actually in the same room and we're having a conversation together and you're in Louisiana and I'm in Georgia, but it's like, we're here. And I see you. And I see you there and your full body experience.

[00:19:07] Jonathan Clues: , and we're having a true conversation in real time now. It's definitely coming. I'm one of the sayings I absolutely love is no one's ever swam behind a wave and surfed it. You've got to be in front, you've got to be in front of a wave. And even then you've got to paddle like heck to get in front of it.

[00:19:22] But you never swim up and catch a wave. And so what we have to hope is enlightened the education industry as a whole is what's coming. Don't fight it. Get ahead of it. Get ahead of it and start being the professional at it, because then that's really good job security. It's great business security because the audience is going to demand it.

[00:19:43] Jonathan Clues: And if you try and catch up with the latest wave three years late, and by the time you get good at it, there's another wave anyway. So you're never going to catch up.

[00:19:50] Let's talk a little bit more about that. What do you see as the future of higher ed marketing?

[00:19:55] I'd really like to talk about what the future of higher education is. You turn on any news outlet and there's just another story about higher education.

[00:20:03] Jonathan Clues: Is it student debt in the trillions? Is it student debt being forgiven? Is it an admissions scandal? I might be unpopular in saying this, I believe education as a whole, has to evolve to understand its place in the development of human beings, 20, 30, 40, 60 years ago.

[00:20:18] Jonathan Clues: Maybe it was your only outlet for learning.

[00:20:20] Jonathan Clues: You had to go to a higher education, bricks and mortar institution to get the in-person learning, to get that the books and the textbooks, and to be walked through on a syllabus, but fast forward to 2022 and more people learn online If I want to go and learn how to fix a dishwasher, I'm not become a certified dishwasher repairman, but I can go and find something a how to video and learn.

[00:20:43] Jonathan Clues: We've got insatiable appetite to learn. And I wonder whether learning is meant to be this rigid format or should it should look one, one great study I read was that education could actually reverse. It could be your learnings done, self paced or digital experiences, but then you go to be in a in-person setting for collaboration, teamwork that actually sets you up better for a career

[00:21:06] Jonathan Clues: because you as individuals, we need to learn how to work as a team.

[00:21:09] Jonathan Clues: And but using different software and different management systems to, to come together as a team. So what would we not be better off training people and educating people where they can learn in their own self pace, learning the way they want to learn an immersive experience.

[00:21:22] Jonathan Clues: Come back in and use a practical sense in-person. So do the theory online and digitally. And I think that then can bring expenses down, bring the value equation back in. I think it makes better future employees. I think it makes a better workforce. So I do think that the overall there needs to be a dramatic shift and look I believe that education's a right of passage to an adult.

[00:21:44] Jonathan Clues: Okay. Is it about the learning or is it about learning how to fend for yourself, do your own washing. mum's no longer there to drive you around. Dad's no longer there to do this. You've got to make decisions on your own. it's as much an education to being an adult as it is an education to being in science or math and English literature, and history.

[00:22:02] Jonathan Clues: And then look, how many people actually don't go on to do a career in what they did in their minor anyway, or you have a major. so I think education could really do well for looking at how people's learning habits have changed. And that still requires students still requires recruitment, still requires academia.

[00:22:19] Jonathan Clues: It still requires great, courses. It still requires all the stuff they do today. I just think it's evolving how they do it. Look, I read an article just yesterday about, someone posted how come a student can get debt for a hundred thousand dollars to go to university with no problem. But then how come an entrepreneur can't raise 10,000 to start a business. It's like, we give money away to students when they don't really know what they're doing.

[00:22:41] because we tell them they have to spend it, but yet how well are they taught money management? How are they taught life management, how are they taught to be better citizens in this world? What are we doing there? And something else that was really interesting.

[00:22:53] Jonathan Clues: This guy just said it to me today. name, anything else you buy that comes with no guarantee or warranty?

[00:22:59] Jonathan Clues: It's an interesting question, right? And he said, Jonathan, you go and buy a car and it doesn't work. You're going to go back. And the dealer doesn't take it. there's the court system to protect you. There's the better business bureau. There's the federal consumer rights act.

[00:23:11] Jonathan Clues: So that kind of stuff come through education. You go to education, but you don't have a great experience. You'd come out and it does nothing for you. There's no recourse. You just got debt. I'm not, poo-pooing the industry, it's an industry we'd love.

[00:23:21] Jonathan Clues: And we've I chose to work in this industry. I chose to work in this industry cause I think we can help, but you need to want to be helped, right? To help someone they need to want to be helped. if the industry is saying, no, we're perfect as we are, and this is the way it's going to be for the next 50 years.

[00:23:34] Jonathan Clues: Almost you can't help them. You need an industry to say, Hey, look, you know what things are gonna change. And we want to be at the forefront of that change and we want to drive the change we want to listen to what the audience needs and see the evolution from just 20 years ago. Just the acceleration of knowledge and acceleration of technology in the last 20 years, outruns the last hundred years.

[00:23:53] Jonathan Clues: And the last five years out runs the last 15. Soit's just exponential. New technology is great till marketers ruined it because by the time everyone's doing it, it's no good anymore. You can't fight the war with the same weapons as everyone else. So marketers is need to be on the cutting edge, try new stuff because once something works and everyone else is doing it, you've no longer got a competitive advantage. So I think that marketers have a job to stay in touch with technology. I think they have a job to stay in touch with our audience it's, what the audience wants. It's not necessarily what the marketer wants.

[00:24:22] What is an app or marketing tool that you can not live without?

[00:24:26] LinkedIn something I quite enjoy. I quite like getting onto LinkedIn. I don't think it was a app or a marketing tool But I like to see who's out there, like sees, looked at my profile because that shows some kind of intent, like why they're looking at me, what are they interested in?

[00:24:39] Jonathan Clues: I like looking at other people's profiles, see what they comment on. So to me, LinkedIn's become, in my professional life, a great tool. I think one that I want to get better at is marketing automation. I believe that marketing automation is such a powerful.

[00:24:55] Jonathan Clues: tool for any marketer whereby if you can have demonstrated interest score, if you can have intent, if you can just see a engagement score and you can marry that up to the right person, the right , ideal student profile, they may call it in the universities.

[00:25:09] Marketing automation. just talk about taking a whole lot of the heavy lifting out where you can write the rules once and it can be well-thought-out business logic. That helps everyone stay in touch the right way. right content, right device, right time.

[00:25:22] Host: It goes back to what you said earlier about recruitment serving retention. And so if you're casting a wide net and you're trying to be everything to every student, you're ultimately setting your institution up for failure because not every student is,a fit for your

[00:25:37] Host: school. So if you can do a better job of scoring students and understanding who's truly a fit and then going all in on those students who are a fit, then that is serving retention.

[00:25:50] Think of as like a dating website? This person may look nice. But then you read, they live in Ontario.

[00:25:56] Jonathan Clues: They don't like walks on the beach and they never want a family. Now, then you look and go, wait a minute. I can probably do that, the walks on the beach, but fact. And so you basically, someone has to show interest in you. But you've also got to have your own parameters to know that just because you show interest in me that there's just some stuff that isn't a fit here.

[00:26:13] Jonathan Clues: And yeah. So I think marketing automation can help with that, especially when it comes to lead scoring, engagement scoring, something we're working on at StudentBridge is really working out that different content has different values. Okay. Someone looks at five dining options and then leaves your website.

[00:26:26] Well, they just hungry. But what about if someone looks at a couple of different courses then looks at study abroad program and comes back and looks at a, study abroad program then looks at dining hall, then looks at residence hall, are they're not moving down a journey of your content saying, Hey, this actually is interesting now because I'm just coming to kick the tires.

[00:26:42] Jonathan Clues: I'm learning about you in a methodical way. Surely that should get a higher engagement score than someone that came to watch five dining videos.

[00:26:48] Jonathan Clues: The world's got tons of content. It's how are you measuring and understanding the impact of that content that I think is going to become key as you understand the potential students that are they a, right. fit.

[00:27:00] if you could go back five or 10 years and give yourself advice, what would it be?

[00:27:04] If I had to go back 10 years and give myself some advice, I would say that I wish I had understood that the industry of education has so many microservices. That's about knowing your market.

[00:27:18] Jonathan Clues: All right. And maybe it's the same as, and when you're in a marketing department for an education institution know that your student has many options, many choices, they're doing a ton. You're not their priority. They've got tons of other priorities. when you start creating a product like StudentBridge, you get so excited and drink your own Kool-Aid that you probably need to take a step back and really say, look just because I believe in it's thinking is brilliant.

[00:27:39] Jonathan Clues: What does the world think about? What else is the world dealing with? You're referring to that StudentBridge was initially a one solution company,.

[00:27:47] Host: and then now has expanded to suite of solutions.

[00:27:52] Jonathan Clues: Yeah, exactly I was so excited about my single solution. I went to market with my amazing single solution. Just adding to the woes of someone in a marketing or enrollment office by just offering yes, another one solution. And I wish that I'd had a little bit more of a global view of the industry to say, wait a minute, I'm not trying to beat the single solutions.

[00:28:10] Jonathan Clues: The worst thing I can do is join them. I need to bring things together to make the life better for the person that's the buyer. So they don't have so many throats to choke. So youthings, decisions to make, so many systems to admin? I wish I'd had more feeling for what the buyer was going through.