Episode #4

Looking for inspiration outside of higher ed

Featuring Dr. Kerr Ramsay Senior Vice President of Enrollment at High Point University
Looking for inspiration outside of higher ed
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In This Episode

You’ll hear from Dr. Kerr Ramsay who is the Senior Vice President of Enrollment at High Point University, a private university in North Carolina.

You'll hear him talk about:

  • how High Point is using print and email differently
  • why enrollment marketing gets a bad rap
  • what the future for enrollment might look like
Dr. Kerr Ramsay

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Host: You're listening to filling seats, the state of enrollment, marketing, and higher ed. Hosted by StudentBridge. In this podcast. You'll learn, what's working to grow shape and sustain enrollment. At colleges and universities directly for marketers thought leaders and ed tech innovators, because anyone can design a brochure, but not anyone can fill seats.

[00:00:30] Host: Welcome to episode four of filling seats. In this episode, you'll hear from Dr. Kerr Ramsay. Who's the senior vice president of enrollment at high point university. A private university in North Carolina. You'll hear him talk about how high point is using print and email differently. Why enrollment marketing gets a bad rap and what the future of enrollment might look like. Let's meet dr Dr. Kerr Ramsay

[00:00:57] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: I'm one of those unique people who is had a full career and enrollment. the stereotypical story of a tour guide in college. First job out of college was in as admissions counselor. And, have worked now at three different institutions, two of which, from which I've graduated. And then, high point university, I was incredibly fortunate as an undergraduate to be a part of a leadership development program where my small group leader at the time was the president of the college.

[00:01:32] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And he had come up through admissions at small colleges and then larger national university. And I just thought he was a really great guy and had a pretty amazing job getting paid to live on a college campus and thought, Getting to talk to high school kids, for the rest of my life and getting to be a part of a college community, sounds like a pretty amazing way to live.

[00:01:57] had the chance to get started right after college. And I've now been doing it for this'll be my 19th year in enrollment

[00:02:05] Host: so Tell me a little bit about your current role and your current institution I currently serve as the senior vice president for undergraduate admissions at high point university. high point is a, medium to large liberal arts university and high point North Carolina, about 5,000 undergraduates to. And a thousand graduate students, high points, a really special place.

[00:02:28] we're one of the fastest growing institutions in the nation. And, I think that's because we have a pretty unique outlook on education. We recognize that all of our students have a cell phone in their pocket that gives them access to all the information in the world.

[00:02:45] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And we as an institution of higher education, have a responsibility to do more for the students, then give them access to information and quiz them on their ability to recall it. we invest heavily and the experiences of students during their time here, making sure that they have internships, that they are very focused on project based, learning that they're applying weekly, what they're learning in terms of theory, but even more importantly, that we spend time investing in who they become even over and above what they become..

[00:03:21] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: we're a school that believes that character really matters, we're a values based institution and we make sure that our prospective students and current students are well aware of that. And they respond in incredible ways. I volunteer over 110,000 hours every year. They generally raise around a million dollars for charity annually and we don't require any of it.

[00:03:45] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: It's just, we set a high expectation in students and they jump over the bar every single year and it's amazing. the fourth piece of what makes high point really special is that we are the premier life skills university. We know that success after college depends more on students' ability to communicate.

[00:04:05] to have the right mindset to, go out in the world, with an excitement about learning new things, having as Robert safety and former editor of fast company said, Hey, figure it out mentality. having a strong set of values, having clear goals on who they want to be and, having, the ability , in desire to go do it and be successful.

[00:04:29] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: It's just incredible to see what our students are able to accomplish.

[00:04:32] I'm curious about your senior vice-president role.

[00:04:36] Host: That means a lot of different things that a lot of different institutions, the way I want to ask it is like how many degrees of separation are there between you and an admissions counselor and how dirty are your hands getting in the world of. Enrollment and admissions

[00:04:52] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: So senior vice president, here at high point, going up, I do report directly to the president of the Institute. within our team, I'm really fortunate to have a director of undergraduate admissions, our director of training and development, our associate vice president of operations and our director of campus visits and events, who report directly to me.

[00:05:16] admissions counselors, all report to a group of associate directors who report to the director of admission. So they're two levels between me and the admissions counselors. However, I interact with them all, regularly and daily and,I don't get to spend as much time one-on-one with students as, uh i use to, But I'm fortunate in that my office is right across the hall from one of the rooms in which we meet with families.

[00:05:44] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And so I do get to see folks coming and going and pop in and say hi, and, and counselors are nice to let me talk to their families every day.

[00:05:52] Host: the reason I ask, at different institutions, the senior vice president is like, oh, that person, that we know their name and I've seen their headshot on the website, but I've never seen them, interacting with families and then they're the ones that are handing out bags at, open house days and all of that.

[00:06:09] just wanted to get some context there. And then you said fastest growing institution in the country, any numbers that you'd like to share about, , how quickly, that growth has taken.

[00:06:21] one of, Yeah. when I arrived in the summer of 2013, Highpoint university had 1100 freshmen. , this current freshman class was 1441. Total enrollment has grown from when I arrived in nine years ago. just over 3000 total students. And now we're at six, so significant growth in graduate and professional programs, for sure. Especially in the health science. we've, added PA PT, pharmacy, athletic training. We've just announced a school of dental medicine and oral health that'll open next year.

[00:06:57] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: There's some other exciting graduate programs coming. And, the undergraduate level nursing starts this coming fall. So we have grown in size of students. The campus continues to grow as well, and certainly the programs were offered. continue to grow

[00:07:13] Host: ,

[00:07:13] Host: that's awesome. so let's talk a little bit about enrollment marketing. What are some recent marketing wins or successes that your school is?

[00:07:22] for us, the only way to measure marketing wins is in enrollment. So if enrollment goes up, marketing gets some credit for that. we really take to heart,being ranked one of the number one most innovative college in the south, and that certainly in our student experience on campus in classrooms and their residence halls and, labs facilities, for sure, we think it also has a lot to do with the mindset, and that different approach to education that have already discussed.

[00:07:51] but we also want. The, part of the student experience and we believe that students should have some control over their own admissions process. We talk about students submitting their application. but I think at most schools, it's really not. It's a, some sort of guess at what the school wants the application to be.

[00:08:12] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And the second students clicked. It's no longer there's anymore. students are given maybe a choice of visit or not visit , and don't get a chance to be a part in designing that experience. students are given the opportunity to come to a website that may or may not have information that they want.

[00:08:31] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And ,that's an old model that doesn't work anymore. students. Are used to everything fast and even better. They're used to, Amazon and everywhere else. They, shop on their phones, recognizing what they care about, and immediately putting back in their Instagram feed, a reminder of the things that they looked at and didn't purchase that's normal.

[00:08:54] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And, Ways expected. that's the kind of experience we want our students to have. we want them to know that we're paying attention to what they care about, offering them content based off of their.

[00:09:05] Host: Yeah.

[00:09:05] recognizing that can't be a one-time thing because interests change over time.

[00:09:10] we know somewhere between 60 and 80% of American college graduates changed their major from when they apply to when they graduate and that's while they're in college. Think about all the changes that happened junior and senior year of high school.

[00:09:22] I'm walking with students through this process, through, college search sites, through our website, through.

[00:09:29] digital marketing through video content, which we know is so important through virtual programming, both live and recorded through virtual campus visit experiences. We basically want students to have access to what they want to have access to.

[00:09:47] Host: , what channels are y'all utilizing for marketing that you feel are most effective.

[00:09:52] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: The short answer is, we don't really know, this gets into the interesting world of, what is privacy and what is not, and how much do we know and how much don't we. at the moment, all the channels that we're using, we feel to be effective based off of what we're seeing in terms of aggregated, usage and, results from within those different channels.

[00:10:15] if something's not effective, we have stopped using it. it feels weird at the moment where. It's both a shotgun, right? You've gotta be everywhere, but there are so many different ways to be everywhere that you also have to be really specific within that. you know, we've identified some great partners who are, have helped us create some content that we think is effective.

[00:10:37] student bridge has been fantastic with helping create videos and making it accessible for students and giving them. to go through that process, we've actually incorporated that into our campus visit experience as well. And, having a touchscreen kiosk when people check in for their visits to scroll through videos, which is been a really popular way for families to start tours.

[00:10:58] Host: so having access both from home and from campus, we've found virtual tours are,are great and helpful. And, students appreciate that. What I like is that we hear from students that even as good as the virtual tour was, it's even better on campus. and that's something that's important to us, Something that you mentioned was any channels that aren't working, we don't utilize those anymore. What are those channels that you have broken up with?

[00:11:25] I'm going to disappoint some people. the answers are not email and print. Uh, you still think there's a really big place for both of those, in this world we're using them. We hope, smarter and differently, to break through the noise for print for. No email, is still incredibly effective.

[00:11:46] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And when we see open rates from 50 to 80%, depending on where students are in the funnel, it's hard to say that it's not effective anymore. And certainly if you're emailing parents, your open rates are even higher and it can drive results. most of what we've dropped have been, partner sites from the past who, may have been effective previously, but aren't anymore that didn't adapt.

[00:12:13] haven't changed. And as the students in the industry have, and, some of the ways in which we used to, acquire names that. No aren't as effective as they used to be

[00:12:26] Host: You speak highly of email and print. If you could only have three channels to communicate with perspective students, would those two fall in your top three? And what would be the third?

[00:12:39] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: Web. And that's number one, because that's where students have the most control and get the most content.

[00:12:46] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And that's what this is all about. It's about content and,heck that's why every campus is adding content creator roles to be able, just to have this amalgamation of whatever students.

[00:13:02] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: So they can access it whenever they want it.

[00:13:05] I also agree that I think email is a really important channel and I think that in higher ed, there's a lot of fear of, overwhelming students inboxes. But if you look at. An industry, like e-commerce, it's all a numbers game. Nike's going to send you six emails a day and they don't care if they get a 3% open rate, because 3% of 10 million is I shouldn't have done that.

[00:13:30] Host: I don't know that number, but, whatever it is, it's a numbers game. It's top of mind, it's reminding it's just staying in the inbox.

[00:13:38] think about your own inbox, right? How many emails do you get every day from the same? And do you read them every day? No. I don't know if you're one of those people, right? Who does the check box delete or if you're a regular swiper, or are you one of those crazy people who just let some build up in the inbox and you've got 10,000 unread messages,

[00:14:02] Host: God. No.

[00:14:03] but every now and then, you click on one of those and they've clearly taken a strategy that, they want to be in your inbox. At the moment that you want to engage and they're not willing to take the risk to only send you three emails a week. And on the day you have a moment on the day you need, a brain check from something else on the day that you can get to it that they're not there and somebody else's.

[00:14:29] and how often do you unsubscribe from those rarely

[00:14:33] I'm actually a big unsubscribe,

[00:14:35] Host: but like the Nike shoe example. I don't want shoes right now, but I'm not going to unsubscribe because I know I'm black Friday. You're going to send me a coupon. So on my school list, I wouldn't be getting emails from 50 schools, but I might be getting emails from 12 because I'm still interested in them.

[00:14:54] Host: So I would still let them accumulate.

[00:14:55] and we see that most students stay with us. , not super high click rates, but cumulatively, like you said, it makes a big difference and we can see the immediate results. we just sent a message about filing a FAFSA to, applicants, not even admits

[00:15:15] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: and, saw an 8% jump and filing rates in one week from over and above what we would have expected on trend from a single email.

[00:15:25] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: It works.

[00:15:26] what about texts?

[00:15:27] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: yeah. I it's not what it once was. it had its moment where it was magic,

[00:15:33] Host: the golden channel.

[00:15:34] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: it was so good and you could text and everyone would respond immediately and engage, and, do what you needed them to do. And that is not the case anymore. We've all become much more comfortable with ignoring texts.

[00:15:49] Host: I think the carrier filters have gotten a lot better.

[00:15:53] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: So that's interesting. We're not noticing, a significant decline in texts deliverability. we're just seeing a decline in text responsiveness,And we try because we care about deliverability to be thoughtful and what we're texting and to whom we're texting.

[00:16:10] and we all do it. And partly because now every time you sign into a website, you get another text. The inbox starts growing. there are more spam texts just They're phishing texts now, like there were fishing emails, so

[00:16:24] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: people are getting a bit more skeptical of their tech box, but it's still a really great way, particularly once you've developed a relationship with a student that's where it all takes place.

[00:16:36] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: that's it. That's.

[00:16:38] Host: , I think five years ago, when we were texting prospective students, they thought that an adult was literally picking up a phone and punching in and texting them. And I think now they're a little more savvy to know, oh, this is just like email. This is some kind of, mass thing. So they don't feel as much of an obligation to respond. I definitely get that. on the flip side, is there anything that you feel your team is currently struggling with in terms of marketing or could be doing better?

[00:17:09] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: oh, I think the struggle now is, the same thing that we think brings value to the students, which is being wherever they are and need us to be. creates a challenge on the backend of one, keeping up with it all and keeping everything updated and making sure the right information is there. and then, making sense of the data we get back from those sources, in a way that allows us to bring that together and communicate with students properly, if they're only in one place that's easy,

[00:17:39] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: but if they're in four or five different places, looking at slightly different things, how do we make sure that we're.

[00:17:45] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: Treating them as a single human being and not acting like it's five different people with a similar habits.

[00:17:51] Host: Can you give an example?

[00:17:53] sure. So particularly looking at student interaction and engagement, we can see who is involved and engaged in our student bridge site. we can see who's involved in our.

[00:18:05] virtual programming site, we can see who is engaged on our website. , and then we can see right through our CRM. Who's engaged with emails and texts, is all that equal. And even, and as counselors are looking at students and trying to connect with those who are the most interested . is one of those, a more valuable measure of engagement than another.

[00:18:30] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: Is the content being consumed on student bridge different than the content, or, differently, valuable than the content on our website or on another platform? if students are consistently looking at the same thing everywhere, then, that's an easy one. No, we don't have exactly the same thing everywhere.

[00:18:52] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: They're slightly different than, and what does that mean? It's just, there's just a lot of information for everybody and, filtering through and making sense of it. All

[00:19:00] Host: What do you believe are some of the biggest misconceptions about enrollment market?

[00:19:06] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: We get skeptical when someone encourages us to use a best practice

[00:19:11] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: and that may sound a little counter into. But what's the best practice. It's something that's been done and tested enough that a lot of people are doing it. And early on had some success with it.

[00:19:24] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: By the time it becomes a best practice. It's probably an old practice and one that no longer standing.

[00:19:31] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: So there are certainly companies that have, made . quite a lot of money selling formulas and best practices to where every Tuesday morning at 10 o'clock I get, eight emails forwarded to me by another VP on campus who has a daughter who is a. Senior in high school that are exactly the same and you can swap out the, this is the school differential paragraph, but

[00:20:00] Host: I'm the logo.

[00:20:02] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: and the logo and the app, Whatever's between the app and the.edu, and everything else is the same.

[00:20:08] Host: yeah.

[00:20:09] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And, at the same time, on the same day, in the same. 'cause that's the best practice. And, it may work if your competitors not using the same vendor

[00:20:22] Host: Right.

[00:20:23] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: or the has the same playbook,

[00:20:25] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: but

[00:20:25] Host: all the same target audience.

[00:20:27] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: yeah.

[00:20:29] what are some things that you think other higher ed marketers are doing a great job with?

[00:20:34] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: I don't pay a whole lot of attention to higher education. I am much more interested in seeing what other industries are doing in terms of more. Because, we're getting better and higher ed. I don't know that we're consistently a decade behind marketing practices now, but we're at least two to three years behind maybe four or five, what the rest of the world is doing.

[00:20:57] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And so I don't really want to take inspiration from,what higher ed has already figured out. I want to take inspiration from. The marketing leaders have figured out and, and look elsewhere for inspiration.

[00:21:12] Host: Is it your belief that enrollment marketers are conservative, like in terms of tactics?

[00:21:19] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: I wouldn't use the word conservative. It's hard to say anything, not positive about enrollment marketers. Because I know people and enrollment care deeply about students and student outcomes and the institutions for which they work. so there is great passion for the institutions.

[00:21:38] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: There's create passion and working with students, there is a huge desire to make a difference in the world. And, I know that enrollment marketers are doing everything. They know how to do that. I also know enrollment marketers for the most part, don't have big budgets for technology. They don't have big budgets for professional development.

[00:22:00] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: They don't have big budgets for additional, training and certifications. they don't have big budgets for staff, which it takes a ton of people to do big time modern market. so I wouldn't say it's,about,an unwillingness to, to try new methods,

[00:22:20] Host: It's like a systemic lack of infrastructure

[00:22:23] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: infrastructure and, that leads to people doing their best with their head down, trying to get it done. And, not having or taking the time to look up and see what's going on beyond, the CRM, Was a revelation to the higher ed 15 years ago. Like, whoa, look at this. and it took a decade for everybody to get on board.

[00:22:51] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: But now everybody's using one of three, almost everybody's using

[00:22:54] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: one.

[00:22:56] and so here we go. Every application looks the same. Every web form looks exactly the same. it's all the same, which for students is nice from that side. It's a consistent experience. But do you have the ability to hire, three full-time slate staff to, to pump out things that are different than what other people do?

[00:23:15] I think it's a really interesting perspective that you have of, keeping your eye on other industries more than higher ed, because I feel like I see that more from people who come from other industries because they know what B2B and e-commerce, and all these other players are doing.

[00:23:34] Host: So I think it's really interesting that you have that perspective being that. Taking the tour guide to SBP routes. thanks. I am. eternally unsatisfied and curious simultaneously and,I'm old school and that I still actually get magazines. I'm not so old school that I say I'd take magazines. That would really date me in a big way. But,fast company and wired are my two reads.

[00:24:00] and sure I get the Chronicle, but I'll read it months later to see what people are complaining about. But, that's interesting to me. What's going on out there and. just the conversations and in business and technology and it gets the brain turning and I'm very fortunate here at high point to have incredible resources.

[00:24:18] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And I know that, but at the same time I'm not apple, I don't have that marketing budget. there are pieces that I can take and pieces that I can't, but, it's interesting to pay attention.

[00:24:27] Host: What do you see for the future of higher ed mark?

[00:24:31] I see, catching up, I'm know I'm not alone in these thoughts. there are other people, and as we see more presidents come in, from industry, outside of higher ed, they are bringing awareness. As we're seeing presidents become more popular on corporate boards, they're getting a different level of insight into what's happening and some of that's coming back to campus.

[00:24:55] and there's some new, players in higher ed marketing, who I think are doing really interesting work who have, gotten this.

[00:25:03] Host: Care to share. And some things that you've seen that you think are really funny.

[00:25:07] integrated marketing, the end of the drip and people have tried to pretend like they've ended that years ago, but we all really know that's still what most inquiry campaigns are. Yeah. Every seven days you get this and then you get that same message.

[00:25:22] that's still how most of this work. And higher ed. but there are companies out there who are truly doing integrated marketing, where a click on a digital ad takes you to a unique landing page, the way in which you interact with that landing page, determines which emails you get after the fact, the way in which you interact with those emails, determines which digital ads you get to see again, or where you're driven to within the page, it's creating your profile, to continue to change the kinds of information you receive.

[00:25:48] which then when you go back to the website is changing the content on the website, even within a single page, based on the way in which you're interacting with it. that's the Amazon experience and there's no reason that higher education can't do it. And Amazon has billions of products. a big school has 200 majors.

[00:26:06] Host: But we were talking about earlier takes people, takes time, takes money, takes much more sophisticated systems and integrations And, all the things that a lot of schools don't have.

[00:26:18] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And, the first time you try and set that up and you realize, instead of proofing one email this week, you have to prove 250 pieces of content to get that process started.

[00:26:28] Host: Or right. The 250 pieces of content. .

[00:26:31] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: Yeah. then, you have a big gulp moment and say, no, we can't do this. let's send them inquiry, email numbers.

[00:26:39] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: now I Think it will result in students continuing to have more control over the process. And, and I think that's a good thing, I do think ultimately that will. Students find institutions that are a better fit, the view book with perfectly curated pictures, it's a nice intro, but students are going to see through that really quickly.

[00:27:01] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: It is about letting the students really drive and they're going to figure it out they're going to go to the website and they're going to see what they need to see.

[00:27:08] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And then they're going to go somewhere else and start following students on Instagram and seeing who's on Snapchat and what's out there and what it really looks like and making their own.

[00:27:23] Host: So related to finding the best fit, this might be a controversial question, but do you really believe besides location colors and mascot, that there's really that much of a difference between. One large public in one state versus one large public and another or small private in one state versus one small private in another.

[00:27:48] I think it's bigger than that. Most of higher education is doing the same thing. my guess is, if I went on 10 campus tours, pick any college across the country, at least nine of them would tell me how many volumes are in the light.

[00:28:04] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: Why does it matter how many volumes are in the library? If every single one of them is available on a student's phone, plus millions of others that aren't at your school and journals and everything else. Hey. If you still think that's important, it says a lot about the institution's ability to understand the state of what's going on and, student mindset.

[00:28:29] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: When you look at recent data, that show 50% of, students under the age of 28 are living at home. There's a recent college graduate, third living. And that's a problem. when you see now the latest, haven't I need to find the 22 data, but, it was less than half of college graduates are employed within six months of graduation.

[00:28:54] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: There's a problem

[00:28:56] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: and it's not a marketing problem. There's a fundamental higher education. And, we've got to take it seriously this is then easy for me to say, but we're different. But I think we've got the stats to show. We are quite different. 98% of our students are employed or in grad school within six months, we give students a value beyond their degree, in a major way, we make sure that they have tuition free access to study abroad.

[00:29:24] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: We make sure they have tuition free access to graduate programs. if they desire, if that's the right next step for them, we make sure that they graduate with something more than under. Because every single one of the two point whatever million students that graduate in the United States with them, we'll have a diploma that lists a degree on it and list a major.

[00:29:48] okay. so what, how do we help them stand out? How do we help them, have the experiences they need, have the sense of character and values that they need? Have the. The right mindset for the rest of their life.

[00:30:02] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: That's, what's important. that's what we talk about on tour. That's what we talk about with students and people respond.

[00:30:08] Host: if you could go back five or 10 years and give yourself advice, what would you.

[00:30:13]

[00:30:13] I think the advice to myself would be,gosh, this is going to sound so freaking conceited.

[00:30:20] but just keep at it. You're doing the right thing. keep learning, keep being curious, keep caring deeply about students and colleagues, the hard days are really going to be hard, but, the other side is pretty great. keep fighting the good fight.

[00:30:35] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: there are a few folks who work at schools whose yield rates are above 50%. most of us in enrollment are not. And which means by design, you are told no more daily than yes. And that's true. I'll use the dirty word, uh, sales everywhere. But there's also a different kind of compensation for sales everywhere.

[00:30:57] we have the best compensation, which is the opportunity to change lives that doesn't get any better than that. But that also makes those nos even harder because you are invested in that student. oh my gosh. If you came here, what you would be able to do, the way it could impact your life.

[00:31:15] Dr. Kerr Ramsay: And so it's easy to get down on yourself and enrollment to say, today, I was three kids withdrew or decided even not to apply or whatever it was. And, I right. What most colleges yield is under 20% now. So by definition, four out of every five students you admit is going to say no to. that's no fun to hear no four out of five times.

[00:31:40] so it is easy to get down on yourself, to think, gosh, why is everybody withdrawing a day? Or why is everybody not going to pay the deposit today? and you've got to work hard to focus on the good that's happening on the students who are coming and, there's, a relatively new book called chatter and which you defined chatter is the negative voices in your head. you've got to get really strong and good at, ignoring the negative voices and really focusing on all the positive ones. lead to growth and opportunity.

[00:32:13]

[00:32:15] Host: thank you for listening to the filling seats podcast, hosted by student bridge. If you'd like to connect with this episode's guest. Check out the show notes. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating and review and don't forget to subscribe. For more information about the podcast or to let us know, you'd like to be a guest.

[00:32:35] Host: Visit student bridge.com/podcast. Thanks for listening